[Let's Watch!] Mawaru Penguindrum: "a penguin-like show" (・⊝・)

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Postby TheSubtleDoctor » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:45 pm

FllMtl Novelist (post: 1521338) wrote:I look forward to seeing it all explained.
My gut is telling me to tell you not to bank on this.
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Postby FllMtl Novelist » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:44 pm

TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1521340) wrote:My gut is telling me to tell you not to bank on this.

...Oh.

Well, this should be interesting...
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Postby Rusty Claymore » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:40 pm

Interesting how Shouma seems to hail from Pingroup (logo on the box) but ended up with the Takakuras and Kiga. Maybe he's a tribute of some kind? (I just checked--the three penguins came from Pingroup too.) I look forward to seeing it all explained.
Pingroup is the terrorists front. Ep 21, I think.
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Postby MangaRocks! » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:06 am

Episode 23:

...

I literally have no words left for this show (and I mean that in a very good way!).

This episode was absolutely amazing.
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Postby blkmage » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:33 pm

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Postby FllMtl Novelist » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:34 pm

Rusty Claymore (post: 1521577) wrote:Pingroup is the terrorists front. Ep 21, I think.

No, I double-checked (beginning of ep 20), and the terrorists had the all-black penguin logo.

And now I must keep myself from this thread until I've seen the latest episode. *runs off*
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Postby mechana2015 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:03 pm

1 ep to go. Very much unsure they're going to pull this off. Which is a shame.
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Postby MangaRocks! » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:47 am

^ Ah, see, I was kinda wondering the same thing myself after episode 20, but episode 21 already put me at ease in that regard. :)

While I have no idea whether Shouma is going to be able to stop the plot, or which of the characters (if any!) might survive, or how everything is going to turn out, I have no doubts at all now that they will indeed pull off a suitable conclusion.
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Postby A_Yellow_Dress » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:43 pm

I watched episode 23 last night..... I have been marathoning it over the past couple days and the weekend.

My mind was not prepared to be messed with so... O.o

(The thing I find the most disturbing is the child broiler. Other than, you know, the shipping things going on between the fake family, murder, assault, etc. There are a lot of disturbing things.) But I gotta say, the symbolism in this series is so heavy and awesome. I love it for all the symbolism alone. Heck, even the opening(s) is/are one giant symbolic spoiler. I love the way it deals with fate, family obligation, and so many other themes.

I think Penguindrum may have beat Madoka on my scale of the best show this year.

......Now how is this all going to be resolved in one episode?
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Postby blkmage » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:07 pm

The Triple H cover album is out and it is glorious.
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Postby Neane » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:15 pm

Final Episode. Waiting for it to be subbed.
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Postby goldenspines » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:44 pm

Episode 24

Not bad of an ending, not bad at all.

Let's share the fruit of fate!

I feel as if the last episode could have been better, but I have no suggestions for its improvement currently, so I'll leave it at that.

Also.
*slaps forehead* I should have known that was the Penguindrum!

Ringo is awesome. Funny how that worked out.

I was doing fine until the note in the teddy bear, then I lost it. ;A;

And, I'm pretty happy all the penguins are still there and that we saw little Sho and Kanba at the end.
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Postby blkmage » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:02 pm

I think that went about as expected.
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Postby Neane » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:12 pm

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Good Ending to an excellent show. Now the question: Which is better: The ending of Magica Madoka or the ending of Penguindrum?
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Postby MangaRocks! » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:38 am

Oh man... I had been expecting the finale to be pretty mindblowing, and indeed, though I had already watched it last night, I couldn't even come up with a post about it until today (and even after a rewatch just now, I'm still finding it slightly difficult to gather my thoughts :sweat:).

However, here is what I can say:

#1: As I had also been expecting, the end was indeed perfectly fitting.

#2: The way that certain things were brought full-circle was really brilliant (like the kids from the beginning!! :wow!::wow!::wow!:).

#3: That last Survival Strategy session was amazing, but difficult to watch. (So much pain...! :sniffle:)

#4: Holy crap, Shouma said it!!!!! :wow!::jump::sniffle:

And #5: That had to be the most heartrending good-ending I've ever witnessed. In fact, it was the best ending possible-- everything was fixed, and certain people even appeared again (!!!!! :sniffle::jump:)-- and yet even through all that happiness and positiveness, it was still incredibly-- beautifully-- heartbreaking. I'm floored.

This was an absolutely incredible series with an equally-incredible end, and an experience I'll never forget.

Well done.
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Postby Vii » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:03 pm

So, this show makes me go from shipping Kanba/Himari and Shouma/Ringo, to the unexpected Shouma/Himari pairing, then back to Kanba/Himari and Shouma/Ringo one last time before it obliterates all possible ships. Mind blown.

I would list the things I was thinking during the last episode, but that would require an analysis of every single scene in order to convey my emotions. Even if I did list them, they'd be pretty scattered and probably make no sense to anyone except me.

Mawaru Penguindrum beats Madoka, at least to me. (Then again, Penguindrum is twice as long as Madoka...)
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Postby Neane » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:43 pm

Penguindrum >>>>>>>> Madoka
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Postby blkmage » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:55 pm

So some more useful impressions of mine. I already mentioned my immediate impression, which was that it was pretty much what I expected. That leads me to my next impression which is that Utena is still better.

If we're going to be comparing Madoka and Penguindrum, then I think the main difference is found there. Madoka was tight and I don't think Penguindrum had the same feel to it at every point. For example, the early Ringo episodes come to mind.

And I think this is the same difference between Utena and Penguindrum. I think Utena's relentless adherence to its episode structure actually helped focus the plot.

Penguindrum is fantastic and is very thematically cohesive but I think it's benefitting from a lot of recency bias.
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Postby goldenspines » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:11 pm

I am confused.

How is Penguindrum better than Madoka? How are we even comparing the two? And are we talking the whole series or the ending? Either way, Madoka outclasses Penguindrum.

Before you say, "But Penguindrum has penguins, so it's better!", no. No.
I love the penguins, but still no.

What did Penguindrum do? Simply, it told a story of love and fate. It was sad, it was funny, and it was overall touching and a great story about brotherly love. It was also pretty symbolic and used fantastic imagery to tell a beautiful yet ugly story.

What did Madoka do? It crashed through tropes and skinned stereotypes alive with its bare hands. It gave tribute to a classical work of literature as well as revolutionized the way we saw not only magical girl anime, but all anime in general. It gave us a raw and beautiful view of people struggling to make the world a better place, not by fulfilling selfish wishes, but by fulfilling the wishes of everyone else around them.

That being said, both the final epsiodes of Madoka and Penguindrum involve altering fate to some extent, whihc I found the most interesting. While Penguindrum did do a fantastic job of altering the world and still kept things mostly on the same track, Madoka rebuilt the whole universe and wrote her own rules. She didn't alter fate, she changed it entirely.

That being said, both are excellent series and Penguindrum was good for what it was and what was expected. It didn't blow my mind as much a Madoka did, though. From the get-go, I knew the story was going to be twisted and symbolic in PD. It didn't shock me in its sybolism, though it did make me smile in many places at its cleverness. Though, I never felt too compelled to watch the next episode right when it came out (except the last one, simply to see how it was all tied together).

But Madoka, on the other hand, grabbed you by the collar and never let you go, even after the final episode.

Gah, ninja'd by Blkmage. I type too slow. 8(

And yeah, side note, but I agree, Utena was better story structure wise than Penguindrum was.



[SIZE="1"]But I still like Star Driver the best! *is shot*[/SIZE]
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Postby Neane » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:14 pm

Madoka was 90% shock value. Remove it, and what do you have?
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Postby goldenspines » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:24 pm

Neane (post: 1523227) wrote:Madoka was 90% shock value. Remove it, and what do you have?
me wrote: What did Madoka do? It crashed through tropes and skinned stereotypes alive with its bare hands. It gave tribute to a classical work of literature as well as revolutionized the way we saw not only magical girl anime, but all anime in general. It gave us a raw and beautiful view of people struggling to make the world a better place, not by fulfilling selfish wishes, but by fulfilling the wishes of everyone else around them.
Saying Madoka was 90% shock value is saying that Penguindrum was 90% three cute penguins, but we both know it was much more than that.
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Postby blkmage » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:36 pm

Neane (post: 1523227) wrote:Madoka was 90% shock value. Remove it, and what do you have?

That's an incredibly lazy reading of Madoka, akin to saying that Penguindrum is only 90% symbolic imagery.

Fine, I'll start with the thing I already mentioned, which is a tight plot, something that Penguindrum does not have.

Madoka also has incredible visual design, which is something that Penguindrum does have. But also important is that Madoka's symbols are more subtle than Penguindrum's (even if they are pretty obvious). I'd say world design in Madoka is on par, but witch barriers and basically everything having to do with witches is a notch above what's in Penguindrum.

And if we want to talk about "shock value", Penguindrum is just as bad in terms of plot twists. Any actual "shock" is relegated basically to that thing that happens in episode 3 and I suspect it overshadows all the other twists, making it seem like it's all shock.

Even if we do accept that it's just shock, that doesn't change the fact that every single one of those shockers has a purpose both plot-wise and thematically. Not surprisingly, the exact same thing can be said about Penguindrum.

If you think Madoka is 90% shock value with nothing else of worth and that this is somehow a point in favour of Penguindrum, I'd say that you understood neither.
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Postby TheSubtleDoctor » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:48 pm

blkmage (post: 1523223) wrote:Utena is still better.
As much as I love Penguimdrum, and I think it's the best show of the year, I think you might be right here. This is coming from a guy who has only seen 1/4 of Utena, but just how special that show is has come through even in that short space of time. Hopefully Utena can stay the course.

I will probably attempt to post my thoughts about Penguindrum later on, as I'm still digesting things.
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Postby blkmage » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:57 pm

Oh, I did forget to mention one more impression that I had, which is that there is a ton of reading that you have to do in order to understand even half the symbols in this show.
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Postby Vii » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:22 pm

Did I start this Madoka/Penguindrum debate? D= Sorry! I didn't mean to make this thread go off topic or anything.
It was just a passing thought that I wrote down since I'd seen a response with a small comment about Madoka and Penguindrum.
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Postby A_Yellow_Dress » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:10 pm

Whoa big debate going on. O.o
My two cents: Madoka is my favorite (note favorite does not necessarily mean that my vote would not go to Penguindrum) of two. (Was before, during and after I finished Penguindrum.) For which show is the best show of the year, I don`t know anymore. I have to think about it.

Did anyone else expect more from the ending?.... Don`t get me wrong, it`s still a great show, but I just was expecting something more. Not sure what, just more.

blkmage (post: 1523234) wrote:Oh, I did forget to mention one more impression that I had, which is that there is a ton of reading that you have to do in order to understand even half the symbols in this show.


I have a symbolism encyclopedia. I kept it beside me when I started watching so I could pause and look things up. XD
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Postby blkmage » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:31 pm

goldenspines (post: 1523226) wrote:[SIZE="1"]But I still like Star Driver the best! *is shot*[/SIZE]

Star Driver also had the same meandering that I felt Penguindrum had and overall, I think I do consider Penguindrum better, but I'd agree that I liked the ending and resolution to Star Driver more than Penguindrum.

I also remember scoffing a bit at Himari's favourite phrase because, really, who says that (also note that one answer is no one, throughout the entire course of the show)?
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Postby Neane » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:02 pm

blkmage (post: 1523229) wrote:That's an incredibly lazy reading of Madoka, akin to saying that Penguindrum is only 90% symbolic imagery.

Fine, I'll start with the thing I already mentioned, which is a tight plot, something that Penguindrum does not have.

Madoka also has incredible visual design, which is something that Penguindrum does have. But also important is that Madoka's symbols are more subtle than Penguindrum's (even if they are pretty obvious). I'd say world design in Madoka is on par, but witch barriers and basically everything having to do with witches is a notch above what's in Penguindrum.

And if we want to talk about "shock value", Penguindrum is just as bad in terms of plot twists. Any actual "shock" is relegated basically to that thing that happens in episode 3 and I suspect it overshadows all the other twists, making it seem like it's all shock.

Even if we do accept that it's just shock, that doesn't change the fact that every single one of those shockers has a purpose both plot-wise and thematically. Not surprisingly, the exact same thing can be said about Penguindrum.

If you think Madoka is 90% shock value with nothing else of worth and that this is somehow a point in favour of Penguindrum, I'd say that you understood neither.





Interesting response.
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Postby goldenspines » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:19 pm

LOL, Neane, you edited your post. XD I wanted to know more about why you thought the way you did about Madoka (especially in comparison to Tutu!). Hit me up via PM or MAL if you get the time. But everyone, let's take a rest, it's Christmas. <3
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Postby A_Yellow_Dress » Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:54 am

blkmage (post: 1523348) wrote:Star Driver also had the same meandering that I felt Penguindrum had and overall, I think I do consider Penguindrum better, but I'd agree that I liked the ending and resolution to Star Driver more than Penguindrum.

I also remember scoffing a bit at Himari's favourite phrase because, really, who says that (also note that one answer is no one, throughout the entire course of the show)?


I thought the phrase came up a lot? Wasn't 'Let's share the fruit of fate' said when Shouma gave the apple to Himari at the child broiler? I was sure it was said a few times...... O.o
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