Let's Watch: Durarara!!

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Postby blkmage » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:22 pm

There's a huge risk for Kida to be open if, in the worst case scenario, Mikado actually turns out to be malicious. Sure, he knows what he's like as his friend, but Kida has no idea what Mikado's motivations are as the leader of the Dollars. What's to stop Mikado from using that against the Yellow Scarves if he decides to value the Dollars over his friendship with Kida? In fact, Kida would be even more aware of these possibilities considering he's in the exact same position as Mikado, where he needs to lead a secret double-life. If he can act like a carefree high school student while hiding the fact that he runs a violent gang, why couldn't Mikado?
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Postby Fish and Chips » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:26 pm

Mr. Hat'n'Clogs (post: 1398784) wrote:Forgive me, but who is Horada again?
Image
Mr. Hat'n'Clogs (post: 1398784) wrote:On the side of the Yellow Scarves, we see an issue. A large group of the gang is no longer loyal to Kida, to the point of ignoring his orders. Just the people who attacked Takeguchi alone represent that much, and its obvious these people also just like violence, and authority, like when they attacked Shingen. They want control, after having had it then losing it following the loss of Kida, and now that Kida is back, he doesn't want to fight the Dollars for control. Neither gang trusts the other, really, and neither leader has much authority. I'm pretty sure both Kida and Mikado know this, which is why neither have really acted on it.
This guy.

And I stress - I stress - that the window for this is already closed. This is the sort of thing that could have wrapped things up in episode 18, but episode 20 we're dealing with a different problem. My post was in regret more than anything.
ich1990 (post: 1398785) wrote:While that would be a clever way to solve the current dilemma, it doesn't really solve the problem. The whole reason this gang war started in the first place was from a lack of communication.
Except that how does opening channels of negotiation NOT lead to further communication between them? The whole reason this is even complicated in the first place is because everyone values their anonymity - something my solution would have settled without compromising.
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Postby mechana2015 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:36 am

At this point I just want Horada to spend some quality time with Erica and Walker.
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Postby ich1990 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:45 am

blkmage (post: 1398793) wrote:There's a huge risk for Kida to be open if, in the worst case scenario, Mikado actually turns out to be malicious. Sure, he knows what he's like as his friend, but Kida has no idea what Mikado's motivations are as the leader of the Dollars. What's to stop Mikado from using that against the Yellow Scarves if he decides to value the Dollars over his friendship with Kida? In fact, Kida would be even more aware of these possibilities considering he's in the exact same position as Mikado, where he needs to lead a secret double-life. If he can act like a carefree high school student while hiding the fact that he runs a violent gang, why couldn't Mikado?


If the worst case scenario were to happen and Mikado were to turn against him, Kida would lose a friendship he didn't really have and a gang he couldn't really control.

On the plus side, he would be able to face this new reality knowing that he put himself on the line for his friends and that is through no fault of his own that his relationships were lost. This is a far better result than, say, waiting around doing nothing because you are afraid of what my happen next --which is what he seems to be doing ever since he found out that Mikado is top dollar. What happened to all of that courage he displayed in talking with the van group?

Fish and Chips (post: 1398796) wrote:Except that how does opening channels of negotiation NOT lead to further communication between them? The whole reason this is even complicated in the first place is because everyone values their anonymity - something my solution would have settled without compromising.


Sorry this is a typo. What I meant to say was open communication. If anonymity is preserved, then Kida can't use his friendship with Mikado to strengthen the two groups' shaky alliance. Without that extra support, Izaya will just topple it again.

The best long-term strategy for Kida is to be honest with Mikado.
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Postby blkmage » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:38 am

ich1990 (post: 1398821) wrote:If the worst case scenario were to happen and Mikado were to turn against him, Kida would lose a friendship he didn't really have and a gang he couldn't really control.

On the plus side, he would be able to face this new reality knowing that he put himself on the line for his friends and that is through no fault of his own that his relationships were lost. This is a far better result than, say, waiting around doing nothing because you are afraid of what my happen next --which is what he seems to be doing ever since he found out that Mikado is top dollar. What happened to all of that courage he displayed in talking with the van group?

That's an oversimplification that assumes that all of the variables going into the decision and the outcomes are all binary.

If Mikado takes an action that benefits the Dollars over Kida, that doesn't mean that Mikado doesn't value Kida's friendship. For all he knows, there could be circumstances under which Mikado would decide that his responsibility to the Dollars is too large to put Kida above. And obviously, also clandestinely leading a gang himself, Kida is aware of all of these choices that Mikado might have to make.

Again, we know that if he does go talk to Mikado, everything's cool. Kida doesn't. Also again, that doesn't mean that his course of action is the best course. All I'm saying is that it's understandable that he doesn't take the direct route and that it's not super obvious that might solve everything oh god he's so stupid why doesn't he just talk with him this is the worst writing ever like you make it out to be.
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Postby Mr. Hat'n'Clogs » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:14 am

Fish and Chips (post: 1398796) wrote:And I stress - I stress - that the window for this is already closed. This is the sort of thing that could have wrapped things up in episode 18, but episode 20 we're dealing with a different problem. My post was in regret more than anything.

See, I'd still disagree with that. Until this episode, the only people who knew the leader of the Dollars was Mikado were Izaya and Takeguchi. Was Kida really going to go to Izaya, the man he loathes, to get information about the leader of the Dollars, especially when he was probably trying more to prevent the Yellow Scarves from starting something but to have them ready if something happened? While Kida had to figure out who the leader of the Dollars was, Horada and friends were itching for a fight. Actually, it probably was a good thing that Kida tried to go slower and not rush into this. Wouldn't it be difficult to try and meet with the leader of the Dollars, when no one knows who he is. That could very well be what he was trying to do when he was talking to Dotachin and friends. It also doesn't help that anyone could pose as the leader of the Dollars if someone just asked "Could we have a meeting between the leaders of the Dollars and the Yellow Scarves.
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Postby ich1990 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:03 pm

blkmage (post: 1398828) wrote:If Mikado takes an action that benefits the Dollars over Kida, that doesn't mean that Mikado doesn't value Kida's friendship. For all he knows, there could be circumstances under which Mikado would decide that his responsibility to the Dollars is too large to put Kida above. And obviously, also clandestinely leading a gang himself, Kida is aware of all of these choices that Mikado might have to make.


Even if this is the case, open communication still isn't a bad choice. Again, the worst case scenario is that he loses a level of friendship with Mikado that he can't hold on to no matter what he does. Or, he accidentally sells his gang out to Mikado, which was worth the price of trying to resolve things with his childhood friend. This isn't Death Note]Again, we know that if he does go talk to Mikado, everything's cool. Kida doesn't. Also again, that doesn't mean that his course of action is the best course. All I'm saying is that it's understandable that he doesn't take the direct route and that it's not super obvious that might solve everything oh god he's so stupid why doesn't he just talk with him this is the worst writing ever like you make it out to be.[/QUOTE]

I am not saying this is bad writing. Heck, knowing this show, there is probably some really good and cool reason for him acting the way he does. From my perspective, right now, however, I can't see that, and therefore I am a little puzzled as to why he doesn't take the more direct route. This puzzlement is borderline on annoyance, given that Kida seems content to let partial-truths from Izaya and miscommunication between himself and Mikado to fester when he could clear them all up by simply talking it out.

But like I said, there is probably a good reason for it. Anri was the slasher, so awesome things are always possible.
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Postby blkmage » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:39 pm

Your annoyance has to do with the fact that you have more information than he does. And far as I understand it, Kida has yet to confront Mikado because he feels he doesn't have enough information yet. All he has is Izaya's tip. If he's going to talk to Mikado about it, he'd better be sure that he's the right guy and make sure that he won't get metaphorically stomped on.

Yeah, this isn't Death Note and relationships matter, which is exactly why Kida can't just sell out his gang, because as much as he wants to leave their world, he still has relationships with a lot of those people. And choosing responsibility over friendship isn't Death Note; it's real life. Sometimes you're going to have to make a choice that'll strain friendships. And when you do make one of those choices, that doesn't mean that you don't value that friendship.

Open communication isn't a bad choice, but it's not the only choice and not the most obviously rational course of action. I can sympathize with his decisions, because if I'm going to rock some boats, I'm going to be extra cautious leading up to said rocking and I want to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Or who knows, maybe it's because I am a terrible friend.

I think the bigger problem that Kida needs to deal with and is a lot more obvious is regaining and asserting his control over his gang.
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Postby Hohenheim » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:10 pm

Been catching up, saw episodes 18 - 20. Wow, so now Anri knows Kida leads the Yellow Scarves, Kida knows Mikado runs the Dollars, and Mikado knows......nothing.

Concerning what people have been saying about resolving the tension between the three, I do think that some open communication would indeed help to relieve some of the tension, though I doubt it would settle everything. Izaya has worked his way too deeply into things, and so is going to make sure that this gang war is going to happen. I mean, he's dead-set on bringing about his crazy Ragnarock/apocalypse plan. Also, I do think that what seems to be the obvious choice to the viewer is not going to be the obvious choice for Kida when revealing his gang to his friends (Still, that doesn't mean I've stopped wishing for him to just do it anyway). He's really emotionally involved with everything going on, and so feels confused and out-of-sorts.

One last thing. I personally don't think that Izaya is some otherworldly, magical being (doesn't mean he isn't a screwball though). My hint is that, in episode 18, he goes through that deck of cards, trying to find out who would represent each card. He says Shizuo is the king, Celty the queen, but when he gets to the joker, he gets miffed and sets the cards on fire. For me, this suggests Izaya thinks of himself as a joker, which he doesn't like. Maybe its because he doesn't want to acknowledge that he is a clown of sorts.....a crazy, manipulative clown at that. That's just my two cents on the matter though; I may very well be wrong, and it turns out that he is something else entirely.

Anyway, these were some great episodes. Wonder if Mikado will soon discover the secret lives of Kida and Anri?
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Postby TheSubtleDoctor » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:25 pm

Two things I think we might be forgetting: (1) Kida has serious emotional problems. He started a gand b/c he felt lonely and like he had no place. Then, as he met people who he formed deep relationships with and who gave him a more preferable sense of place (Saki, then Mikado, Anri), these people, these emotional anchors, became more important in his life. It is understandable if Kida is risk-averse when it comes to losing this existnetial grounding, as he places such a high value on it. Hence, caution is required. Facing a reality w/o that sort of grounding would probably be frightening to him. (2) Kida is still a kid. I did some very dumb things when I was 14/15. Pubescent boys = not always the best descision-makers.
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Postby Mr. Hat'n'Clogs » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:53 pm

TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1398853) wrote:Two things I think we might be forgetting: (1) Kida has serious emotional problems. He started a gand b/c he felt lonely and like he had no place. Then, as he met people who he formed deep relationships with and who gave him a more preferable sense of place (Saki, then Mikado, Anri), these people, these emotional anchors, became more important in his life. It is understandable if Kida is risk-averse when it comes to losing this existnetial grounding, as he places such a high value on it. Hence, caution is required. Facing a reality w/o that sort of grounding would probably be frightening to him. (2) Kida is still a kid. I did some very dumb things when I was 14/15. Pubescent boys = not always the best descision-makers.


I find it amusing that I've already made both of those points.
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Postby ich1990 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:18 pm

blkmage (post: 1398841) wrote:Your annoyance has to do with the fact that you have more information than he does.

Open communication isn't a bad choice, but it's not the only choice and not the most obviously rational course of action. I can sympathize with his decisions, because if I'm going to rock some boats, I'm going to be extra cautious leading up to said rocking and I want to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Or who knows, maybe it's because I am a terrible friend.


Hm, you might be right, it is always difficult to imagine knowing less about something than you actually do. Perhaps I am letting my knowledge of the events bias me. Or, as Fish said, this might also be a personality thing. While it seems to me that open communication is the best option, I see things so much differently than Kida that it may not appear that way to him. Or to you.

Thank you all for talking with me, I don't see Kida's actions as quite so annoying any more. I eagerly await the next episode to see how he pulls (or fails to pull) himself out of this.
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Postby TheSubtleDoctor » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:03 pm

Mr. Hat'n'Clogs (post: 1398862) wrote:I find it amusing that I've already made both of those points.
:o Yeah but...but...[SIZE="1"]they still forgot...[/SIZE]

lol, shows how good I am at skimming! :hits_self
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Postby Fish and Chips » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:55 pm

Episode 21

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Chess pieces are Saika's Children.
Go pieces are Yellow Scarves.
Shogi pieces are Dollars.

Also, it appears Anri is the only well-endowed bespectacled female attendee of Raira Academy. I could accept Mikado and Kida jumping to conclusions, they're just worrying in a worst case scenario that it's someone they know - then Horada recognizes her having never seen her before in his life.

On the plus side, things are slowly returning to form with all the cast members converging again. Keep things like this, please.

Also, what happened to Shinra's dad?
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Postby Kung_Fu_Master » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:51 pm

Everyone knows everyone else no matter if they have met or not-Anime rule #53
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Postby ich1990 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:17 pm

Fish and Chips (post: 1400148) wrote:Also, it appears Anri is the only well-endowed bespectacled female attendee of Raira Academy. I could accept Mikado and Kida jumping to conclusions, they're just worrying in a worst case scenario that it's someone they know - then Horada recognizes her having never seen her before in his life.
Horado just wants to beat people up. I don't think he is really concerned about accidentally hurting the wrong person, so it makes sense that he attacked the first person who matched the description. It was just an unlucky coincidence that he found Anri first, rather than an actual identification.
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Postby Mr. Hat'n'Clogs » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:44 pm

ich1990 (post: 1400219) wrote:Horado just wants to beat people up. I don't think he is really concerned about accidentally hurting the wrong person, so it makes sense that he attacked the first person who matched the description. It was just an unlucky coincidence that he found Anri first, rather than an actual identification.

Indeed, Horada ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, and just thought it would be easiest to beat up every person matching the description.

Otherwise, this was a great episode. It was excellent to see Shinra, Seiji, Shizuo, and Mika once again. This is gonna be great.
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Postby goldenspines » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:11 pm

Why is Seiji, the man who fell in love with a head, giving love advice to Mikado?

Man, I still like this series, but I'm getting depressed. I really hope they can wrap all this up by the end into a semi-happy ending.

Though, something I'm curious about; Kasuka Heiwajima appears in the new opening, but we haven't really seen much of him yet in the second arc. Unless I missed something. :I
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Postby Fantasy Dreamer » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:20 am

Ok, got behind the last two weeks, now I'm caught up! \o.o/ Also...
goldenspines (post: 1401037) wrote:Why is Seiji, the man who fell in love with a head, giving love advice to Mikado?
I was wondering the same thing. XD Couldn't help thinking, "You have a weird, freaky love interest, how can I take you seriously?"[quote="goldenspines (post: 1401037)"]Man, I still like this series, but I'm getting depressed. I really hope they can wrap all this up by the end into a semi-happy ending.
Though, something I'm curious about]I'm getting depressed, too. =( It's all so mixed up, and if they would just talk to each other it could all be avoided. XD; At least, that's how I feel (though we all know that talking it out does not always make things better/easier). There is lots of tension building up though, don't you think?

And I'm wondering about Kasuka Heiwajima myself. XD;;
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Postby blkmage » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:55 am

goldenspines (post: 1401037) wrote:Why is Seiji, the man who fell in love with a head, giving love advice to Mikado?

This was the best part.
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Postby Mr. Hat'n'Clogs » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:04 pm

Episode 22

So the Yellow Scarves think they can kill Shizuo Heiwajima with a few gunshots. Not the best plan.
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Postby shade of dae » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:16 pm

So now that I'm not swamped with school and work, I've been marathoning the series to catch up with you guys. Durarara!! has quickly become one of my favorite series. I love all of the characters, which is why I was upset with the end of this ep. Seriously, Shizu-chan got shot, what, 3 times in the stomach? He may be strong, but can he survive gunshots? He is a fan favorite, which in a series like Bleach would mean that there's no way he could die, but I don't know if this series has the guts to kill off one of the most popular characters.

In other news, It looks like we may actually have a meeting between Anri and Mikado as the heads of their respective gangs. It should be interesting, mainly to see if Anri will tell Mikado about Kida. Perhaps they'll join gangs to take out the yellow scarves problem? Mikado might have disbanded the Dollars, but I doubt that the disbandment will last very long.
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Postby blkmage » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:26 pm

It is always a treat to see the entirety of Dollars in action. It kind of reminds me of the Yang fleet in LOGH, motivated by "foppery and whim".
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Postby Mr. Hat'n'Clogs » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:16 am

blkmage (post: 1402019) wrote:It is always a treat to see the entirety of Dollars in action. It kind of reminds me of the Yang fleet in LOGH, motivated by "foppery and whim".


That was definitely the best part of the episode. Seeing everyone come back like that (except the anime-only character) was great.
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Postby ich1990 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:30 am

It looks like Kida, Anri, and Mikado are moving towards open communication now, I guess we will see if that helps things or makes them worse. Is Durarara going to be an epic tragedy or an epic drama? We will soon see.

And there is no way that Shizuo is going to put down by a shot to the stomach and leg. If he did, I think the whole DRRR world would collapse from the vacuum created by so much awesomeness leaving the universe. It just wouldn't be right.
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Postby shade of dae » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:39 pm

ich1990 (post: 1402091) wrote:And there is no way that Shizuo is going to put down by a shot to the stomach and leg. If he did, I think the whole DRRR world would collapse from the vacuum created by so much awesomeness leaving the universe. It just wouldn't be right.


Haha, that's true. I thought it was a shot in the chest and stomach, which are a little harder to recover from than a shot in the leg. But even so, I suppose it would be unlikely for Shizuo to die based on the fact that no one else in DRRR has. I've been fairly absorbed in reading Pluto, and I guess I'm having a hard time keeping the two universes straight: Durarara!! in which no one dies (but everyone gets beaten up), and Pluto in which everyone dies (but not always permanently).

I'm really looking forward to seeing what will happen with Celty's head. I imagine that it should awaken fairly soon-- perhaps as a result of the upcoming meeting?
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Postby mechana2015 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:42 am

*facepalms* I decided I'd be on top of things and watch the new episode right now... so I open it and it pops up a bar reading 'this episode unlocks in 24 minutes'. So much for being on top of things.

*waits impatiently*
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Postby blkmage » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:55 pm

I'm sure someone will be interested to learn that someone's been translating snippets of the light novel, although not in any continuous fashion yet. I'll be taking a look when there's a bit more stuff to go through.
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Postby Kung_Fu_Master » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:01 pm

So the novel has 7 volumes and the anime only covers three or four of them right? And that ends next episode? So unless there's a season two it's going to end with quite the Swiss cheese. But as another anime taught us, It's more enjoyable that way(as long as they end this well.)



EXTRA:

Shinra: "Why are you walking around like that?"
Shizuo: "'Cause I can."

That scene really made my day.
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Postby MightiMidget » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:38 am

YAY! Shizuo is fine! 'Course, we knew that, but hey. The reassurance made me very very happy. *phew* And yes, Kung_Fu, that was awesome. :lol:

But KIDA!!! *cries* I am torn between rooting him on and panicking for his safety. But everything is tying off nicely, and gah! I can't wait for next week!!! My Internet better work then....
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