kryptech (post: 1204177) wrote:I do have a certain interest in gothic material, though I have read almost nothing in that genre. The local library has a number of volumes from Godchild, the first of which I checked out but didn't really get into. I'm not familiar with the other titles you mentioned and I don't think the library here has any further gothic manga.
I have a greater interest in vampires than zombies (they have so much more style). Recently I have been reading Battle Angel Alita: Last Order and volumes 8 and 9 deal with a vampire, with volume 9 looking back into that character's past. The background history of character's motives and current circumstances was enjoyable.
To a certain extent they are different subcultures. However, they are both rooted in very similar ideas. And then, there are strong and significant ties between the two subcultures both in Japan and here in the 'States. Both movements were started by fans of Punk and Glam rock that wanted to create a fashion and subculture that had a deep sense of refinement and dark romanticism. As such, many of the controversies that pop up about EGL Visual Kei performers (i.e. "Why do these men incorporate so many articles of traditionally feminine clothing?") mirror controversies in the early Gothic movement (such as early performances of Rozz Williams and his band Christian Death being greeted by hecklers that wanted to know "Who's the fag in the skirt?"). You are right that there are many more subsets of the Lolita fashion, many of which have none of the sense of gloom of the Gothic Lolitas. As such, I prefer to refer to the subculture as a whole as the Gothic & Lolita subculture, which I draw from the popular Gothic and Lolita Bible (the Holy Bible, after all, does not contain much guidance in the way of fashion tips). In general, the Gothic & Lolita subculture has so much in common with the Neo-Romantic Goths (who tend to be fond of wearing clothing inspired by bygone ages) that I consider both to be subsets of the same philosphy. Beyond mere outlook, Gothic nightclubs in Japan have been playing Visual Kei music to attract members of the Gothic & Lolita subculture, while here in the 'States the Gothic subculture has been actively popularizing the Gothic & Lolita subculture. As to rejection of the Gothic or Emo labels, I think people have this kind of one-dimensional view of Goths and Emos. They think both subcultures have merely exchanged our culture's illusion of evergreen happiness for a state of perpetual gloom and melodrama that denies them all sense of joy and beauty in life. The reality, however, is as complex as human emotion itself.minakichan (post: 1204200) wrote:Eh? I thought Gothicism and EGL were almost completely different subcultures. There are cutesy-happy pink EGLs out there. VK kind of shows a mix of the two, but most of my EGL fan friends would shoot me if I called them Goth-- or emo.
You mean the one about a couple of morbid sleuths who crack a bunch of very difficult murder mysteries? I would read it if I could find it, but no Western companies have licensed it and I can't find a working source of the Scanlation.Shao Feng-Li (post: 1204428) wrote:I don't think anyone's read a gothic manga until they've read Goth.
GhostontheNet (post: 1204443) wrote:Well, around these parts issues of Bizenghast and The Dreaming are dime-a-dozen, so you may want to keep an eye out for those. And then, through Prospector and Interlibrary Loan on your local library's website you can access almost any title you could dream of.
GhostontheNet (post: 1204443) wrote:It is true that vampyres are much more stylish than zombies, but I guess they're really two entirely different kinds of stories. Vampyres tend to have established themselves as members of the wealthy elite whom have learned to mask their base sense of predatory bloodlust with a sense of culture and refinement. Zombies on the other hand, tend to represent the dehumanized victims of economic and cultural oppression (an interpretation lately repopularized by Shaun Of The Dead) that have no more control over themselves.
GhostontheNet (post: 1204443) wrote:I haven't gotten around to reading Battle Angel Alita yet, although I have seen a number of issues at my local library? Should I check it out?
Believe it or not, in horror cinema the werewolf originated during World War II as a symbol of Hitler. The werewolf myth in its present form, however, developed out of the cultural repression of the 1950's. The werewolf is typically a nice guy in his human form, but whenever he runs into the trigger of his altered form, he becomes a ravenous wild animal that cannot restrain himself from acting out his darkest impulses. Perhaps the werewolf is a symbol of raw male testosterone getting in the way of his efforts to be civilized.kryptech (post: 1204555) wrote:Well said. And perhaps Lycan fall somewhere between the two...
Yeah, I saw that it looked like a really Cyberpunk manga with a certain flair of future noir. I wanted to know whether it is worth checking out.I understand there is a Battle Angel Alita series followed by Battle Angel Alita: Last Order. I have only read 9 volumes of the latter. Primarily the story is sci-fi action with a cyborg heroine, so I wouldn't class it as gothic. The introduction of a vampire (vampyre) was very unexpected, as was the detailed history. Interesting, though I don't know how large a role that character will play in future volumes.
GhostontheNet (post: 1204576) wrote: Yeah, I saw that it looked like a really Cyberpunk manga with a certain flair of future noir. I wanted to know whether it is worth checking out.
Well, Cyberpunk isn't Gothic as such, but it is quite popular within the Gothic subculture. This is especially true because of the close ties the Gothic subculture has with fans of Industrial music, who are known as Rivetheads. Walk into almost any Gothic club night, and you should see at least a dozen people that look like they stepped out of Blade Runner, and hear music by Cyberpunk inspired Industrial musicians like Front Line Assembly, Skinny Puppy, Grendel, and Covenant (to name but a few). In fact, I play a number of these musicians on my internet radio station, which can be accessed by clicking the link in my signature.mechana2015 (post: 1204591) wrote:Its a classic cyberpunk in the vein of William Gibson, very non gothic, unless you qualify matrix and neuromancer as such. The series is very good, with great art and design as well as an engaging story and universe. There are two parts, the original series and "last order", an alternate ending/continuation of the series (the connection is a bit convoluted). The series is rated M for some nudity, some sexual content and mostly for extreme violence. Vampires don't show up until about 15 books into the series.
I just finished reading through Goth. The storytelling was pretty good, overall. I don't believe I have ever read anything with such a menagerie of neurotic and sadistic characters. The only major character that had some morals and had not completely demolished her conscience was the Goth girl Yoru Morino, with whom I have a fair bit in common, so I could empathize with her for most of the series. Still, having a couple of antihero detectives drawn to solve murders out of a sense of morbidity rather than justice led to some surprising moral breaches that break the typical rules of the genre. In the second chapter, for example, the duo leaves a naked corpse as badly mutilated as a Salvador Dali painting unburied and unreported (a serious sacrilege in most cultures). Then, at the end of the chapter, the neurotic narrator simply lets the murderer go in exchange for an expedient arrangement of mutual safety. The tragic ending of the series is somewhat suitable, however, because relationships built on mutilation don't work out in the end.Shao Feng-Li (post: 1204655) wrote:Got that link sent to you if you haven't checked your PM box.
I haven't read Le Portrait de Petit Cossette yet, though it definitely looks quite good. From the looks of it, it seems to be a old-fashioned Gothic ghost story in the style of The Turn of the Screw, except that Cossette the ghost in not malignant, but unintentionally brings grave misfortune. As it so happens, Tokyopop has already licensed and released the entire series (both issues), so you can be both impatient and ethical at the same time.onyxmoon21 (post: 1204664) wrote:I've been reading the manga Le Portrait de Petit Cossette online recently. Has anyone else ever read it?
Even though I'm only on the third chapter, (the gal who's uploading it is reeallly slowwww) I think it's pretty good so far. I'd most certainly call it gothic, and very EGL.
I've looked for a good review on it... but so far, nothing. Though from what I have heard, it's supposed to be a fairly well-done series, and I must admit, it's addictive. ^^
GhostontheNet (post: 1204856) wrote:I haven't read Le Portrait de Petit Cossette yet, though it definitely looks quite good. From the looks of it, it seems to be a old-fashioned Gothic ghost story in the style of The Turn of the Screw, except that Cossette the ghost in not malignant, but unintentionally brings grave misfortune. As it so happens, Tokyopop has already licensed and released the entire series (both issues), so you can be both impatient and ethical at the same time.
That's a novel one. Both the Manga and the Anime are rated Older Teen for violent and sexual content. I might eventually do a review of Le Portrait de Petit Cossette if Gypsy or Mangafanatic ever returns and informs me of the status of my Gunslinger Girl review.onyxmoon21 (post: 1204950) wrote:I would buy it now, but I've decided to read it online just to make sure there aren't any nasty little surprises waiting for me if I do get it. *crosses fingers* So far so good! ^^
GhostontheNet (post: 1204957) wrote:That's a novel one. Both the Manga and the Anime are rated Older Teen for violent and sexual content. I might eventually do a review of Le Portrait de Petit Cossette if Gypsy or Mangafanatic ever returns and informs me of the status of my Gunslinger Girl review.
It looks like SirThinks2Much beat me to the punchline and wrote one for the Anime, which can be accessed here.onyxmoon21 (post: 1205184) wrote:A manga review for Le Portrait de Petit Cossette would be awesome. CAA really could use one.
GhostontheNet (post: 1205197) wrote:It looks like SirThinks2Much beat me to the punchline and wrote one for the Anime, which can be accessed here.
I thought the interior artwork was both very well done and well-suited to the work. Bizenghast's art seems to be heavily influenced by the German Expressionist movement. Expressionism was highly influential in horror movie classics like The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and Nosferatu, and in more contemporary times Tim Burton has built his career on reviving the aesthetic through his films. In this context, Bizenghast seems to be a well-drawn specimen of its form with just the right contrast of light and shadows, highly textured environments that transpose images of timeless beauty and decay, and disturbing Expressionist angles that give it a sense of claustrophobia and madness. I think the "rigidness" you refer to owes to the fact that Expressionist art is usually built on a series of angular triangle shapes. As to the story itself, Dinah and Vincent start out as characters built on archetypes of Gothic literature (which is okay since the idea is to introduce the genre to audiences unfamiliar with it), but display more unique characteristics as the series progresses.SirThinks2Much (post: 1206104) wrote:I didn't find Bizenghast very engaging. The promotional and cover art are stunning, but the interior artwork (at least at the outset, I haven't continued reading) left a lot to be desired. Hopefully the figures are less stiff and the toning more varied.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests