CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Rocketshipper wrote:The Xenogears and Xenosaga games don't have magic. All of the "magical" type atacks used by characters are actually caused by nanomachines or something like that.

Yes, they do.
Xenogears has Chi or Chakra from what I remember. But actually, if he doesn't like magic in games, the Xeno series are at the bottom of what I'd recommend given all of the religious symbolism and such.

MasterDias wrote:Yes, they do.
Xenogears has Chi or Chakra from what I remember. But actually, if he doesn't like magic in games, the Xeno series are at the bottom of what I'd recommend given all of the religious symbolism and such.

yeah. that's true. the xeno games have a lot of offensive religious material. especially xenogears.

I would consider the content of Xenosaga worse than that of Gears religiously (and the overall gameplay itself, actually game for that matter) but that is a topic for another thread and/or message board.

If the thread starter is offended by shooting a pillar of fire at enimies or healing allies with a beam of light labled as magic then he should probably stay away from RPGs altogether.

Regarding the irrelevant Boondocks topic, I agree the comic strips are clean and usually funny. The show however, is the polar opposite. Once again, topic for another day.

Goodness, you guys take me too seriously. Seriously.

With that avatar, I can't say your correct.

(Yes, I know who it is).

I was pointed to the Phantasy Star series when I asked this question. The original one lists "magic" in the abilities box, but everything I've seen in the storyline stuff says its all technological abilities. I haven't gotten a hold of the PSO series to make any statement on it.

The world needs more sci-fi and historical and non-fantasy RPGs, that's all there is too it. Where is it written in stone that an RPG must be high fantasy?

Previously I didn't mention the Boondocks tangent because I was hoping it was over, but I'll speak up now: it's over. The clarification of the comic changes things somewhat and frankly I think almost all Christians have bizarre combinations of objections based on faith. Let's return to the subject, if we have more to say.

The world needs more sci-fi and historical and non-fantasy RPGs, that's all there is too it. Where is it written in stone that an RPG must be high fantasy?

I would love to see more RPGs that don't use magic or a form that's almost identical. There are so many other things to focus on, but it seems that no one ever wishes to stick to normal characters, e.g archers, knights etc without adding a wizard or mage or three.
Perhaps in the future this will change; I hope so. It would be excellent to find more RPGs out there that don't have to add magic in the mix somewhere.
So far I really like the Megaman Battle Network series, as someone already mentioned. Some tactical games are nice too; maybe Advance Wars could be a good game for you to try, jayquam, though it's not really an RPG, I guess. I haven't played it myself, but I think I've seen good reviews and from the look of things it deals with technology e.g tanks etc rather than magic.

The thing is that RPGs, and especially traditional RPGs, really don't work very well at all without some form of magic. Remove magic from Final Fantasy and basically all you would be doing is jamming down on the attack button.

I wouldn't mind seeing more sci-fi and historical RPGs, but it's still going to need some form of magic to work, even if they attempt to pseudo-scientifically explain it away.

Well, there are a few things they may be able to replace magic with; for normal characters, the usual move system where you learn new attacks as you go up levels are cool. And there can always be special effects, even without there being magic in a game.

Wait, why don't you want magic in RPGs? RPGs would be boring without it.

You're going to find this stupid, but for the sake of answering your question, here goes. The Bible specifically forbids the use of magic, it is a sin. In that vein, there are Christians who do not like good guys in movies/books/games to use magic. Some of them are okay with the villains using magic (since it is a sin, so bad guys would do it), but some don't like magic at all, period.

I have no problem with magic, as magic in video games cannot be done in the real world and is just as much fantasy as elves or gnomes. However, as I said, this isn't true for every Christian, and some try to avoid it.

Anyway, I would not want to play an RPG without magic. Techniques and stuff are fine, but when you limit things to real life, the game would be unnecessarily difficult. For example, being wounded in combat. In a game, you lose some HP, so what, you cure it with a Cure spell. If the game did not contain magic, you wouldn't regain those HP. You would have to let the wound heal naturally over the course of weeks. Staying at an inn wouldn't help, as that's magical too, since I've never gotten hurt, slept overnight, and woke up completely healed.

So having no way in which to heal your party members, combined with the rate at which combat occurs in RPGs (pretty often) would make the game near impossible. That to me isn't fun. Also without magic there's no dragons, no goblins, no monsters...I mean, what would be the fun if you just fought humans battle after battle? The only way to completely remedy this would be, as someone said, to make a sci-fi RPG where you battle robots and stuff. But sci-fi doesn't usually lend itself well to the RPG genre. Who's going to equip swords in a sci-fi setting? How many people do you see carrying swords in the modern day? Most people have guns. Or lasers in the future. So sci-fi tends to lend itself more to FPS games than RPGs. There are of course exceptions (Star Ocean comes to mind) but even in those games there is a reason for the misplacement (Nel has trained with daggers; she's never held a gun in her life since she's from an underdeveloped planet, and they don't have time to train her, just let her use what she's good at).

Well, that's my take on it, at least.

[quote="Photosoph"]Well, there are a few things they may be able to replace magic with]
Special attacks are all well and good but if you have to constantly rely on special moves like this, the battle system will probably grow tedious very quickly. Even if they look cool, the special attack animations will grow old when viewed for the 100th time. That was an issue I had with Xenosaga: Episode 1.

And besides, I fail to see the difference between using Lightning Blade and a mage casting Lightning....

arite, i thin i found one. anyone ever played super robot taisen? it sounds good, and gamespot said it was robot rpg, some i know there won't be no magic.

Xenogears was a robot RPG and there definately was magic.

super robot taisen is more like advance wars,ill do some reaschin on wiki, but it looks like i may have found a winner

BOOOOO,it has Spirit Commands, substiutue magic. looks like ill have to buy a ds and find advance wars dual strike.

[quote="Nate"]
The only way to completely remedy this would be, as someone said, to make a sci-fi RPG where you battle robots and stuff. But sci-fi doesn't usually lend itself well to the RPG genre. Who's going to equip swords in a sci-fi setting? How many people do you see carrying swords in the modern day? Most people have guns. Or lasers in the future. So sci-fi tends to lend itself more to FPS games than RPGs. There are of course exceptions (Star Ocean comes to mind) but even in those games there is a reason for the misplacement (Nel has trained with daggers]

Well I heard the Knights of the Old Republic franchise did pretty well. But I see what you're saying and a Sci-Fi RPG setting in a universe like in Star Wars does have basically the equivalent of magic and elves/dragons and such. Which brings me to another contradiction I see sometimes with people who don't like "magic" in games but have no problem with anything Star Wars related. I mean last time I checked emitting lightning from your fingertips and moving objects with your mind would pretty much constitute as magic in a fantasy setting. Oh well...

i got no problem with star wars, ha i just bought lego star wars, which has the force. I might just get taisen, wikipedia said those sprit commands were more like inner will power, because most of them were not externer forces.i guess will power ant bad.

this is what wiki said

"Spirit Commands, also called Seishin (精神), are special commands from the Super Robot Wars series of video games that resemble magic spells in traditional computer role-playing games. The primary difference is that unlike the spells exhibited in games like Final Fantasy, Spirit Commands are not typically outwards manifestations of power; for the most part, they are inward manifestiations, used to enhance one's own abilities in battle. Within the context of the Super Robot Wars series, Spirit Commands can be thought of as feats of willpower used by exceptionally strong-willed people; hence, they are typically only used by the player's characters and by major boss enemy. Spirit Commands are used by expending Spirit Points (SP), which function much like Magic points in traditional role-playing games and can only be recovered through the use of certain other Spirit Commands.

The list of Spirit Commands available in each Super Robot Wars game varies, usually based on that game's mechanics. For example, Super Robot Wars Alpha 3, which features Macross 7, has a Spirit Command devoted to Song Energy, an important plot element of that show.

Additionally, the Spirit Point cost of some Commands can be variable. While some games in the series feature fixed point costs, others have variable costs based off of factors such as personality traits"

I do have a good RPG without magic, though it has other problems. Fallout is excellent, but it is old (1997), has a good deal of violence, blood, and some sexual content, and is targeted at an older audience (it's rated M, so 17+). The good and bad part of the game is that it allows you to do just about anything you want (within the bounds of a 1997 game), leaving openings for you to do a myriad of evil and good acts depending on what type of character you want to play. This means the game experience is very much based around the player rather than being a straight-line story like many RPGs. While there is a storyline you need to complete, exactly how you go about completing it will affect the world, and the world is very open, allowing you to do just about whatever you want (though not without consequences). The game is a classic with an interesting storyline, a very open but well-designed plot, and a cool 50's cold-war feel to it. It has it's flaws, but is overall very good.

And to comment on Nate's comment about magic...this works well because it uses medkits, like most non-magical RPG-esque games. Not realistic, perhaps, but they chalk the healing up to advanced (and not-so-advanced) medicine. Plus the inns are usually supposed to simulate natural healing rather than magical, so while the rate is greatly increased (Dad, my broken leg and Jimmy's diphtheria were healed overnight! We're saved!).

jayquam wrote:i got no problem with star wars, ha i just bought lego star wars, which has the force. I might just get taisen, wikipedia said those sprit commands were more like inner will power, because most of them were not externer forces.i guess will power ant bad.

Just out of curiosity, what makes "using the force" any cleaner than shooting some enemy with a ball of fire?

Deus Ex perhaps? Everything unrealistic in Deus Ex is explained in detail in future technological methods, however.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke

[quote="jayquam"]this is what wiki said

"Spirit Commands, also called Seishin (精]

Please use the "edit" function instead of double posting. We appreciate every user helping to keep CAA uncluttered (and double posting to increase post count and/or bump your thread is considered extremely poor netiquette).

Mithrandir wrote:Please use the "edit" function instead of double posting. We appreciate every user helping to keep CAA uncluttered (and double posting to increase post count and/or bump your thread is considered extremely poor netiquette).

sorry, didnt even think bout editin.it was late last night.

I wouldn't consider "force" magic.when i think of magic, i think more of like spells and casting.Except for when the sith shot lightining, the "force" was mostly just movin stuff.

jayquam wrote:sorry, didnt even think bout editin.it was late last night.

I wouldn't consider "force" magic.when i think of magic, i think more of like spells and casting.Except for when the sith shot lightining, the "force" was mostly just movin stuff.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. In the movies force powers used are telekinesis, lightning, persuasion, blocking, throwing, leaping, precognition, choking, oh and not to mention life creation as with Darth Plageius and Anakin. There are a few others but those are what i can think of off hand. I'm a big RPG gamer especially D&D ones. Those powers you could pretty much call magic and you could throw them in say Neverwinter Nights or final Fantasy and they would fit perfectly.

Force powers are even more so interchangeable with magic in the many Star Wars games such as the Jedi Knight and KOTOR series. Force....cure, drain, scream, rage, shield, barrier, aura, battle meditation, cloak, revitalize, blinding, farsight. Heck just look it up on Wikipedia. Slap a magic label on them and that's what they are.

i guess ill just have to pick a rpg. see,my mom still regulates my gaming(meh, even though im 17), thats why i try to find one without it.

If you can find it, Monster Hunter might just fill the bill. It's just you, your wits, and really...really...REALLY big swords against wyverns and dinosaur type creatures. There is blood, though.

I wondered about Monster Hunter. Since I don't have a PS2 yet, I hadn't researched it very hard.

On the is magic bad/is the Force bad/ ect, my two bits would be not to go overboard with it. I activly seek out games that don't utilize magic, but just because a game has it doesn't automatically blacklist it. I'm an old Star Wars geek, so the Force doesn't bother me, mostly because it is well seperated from the real world, by a long time and a lot of space. Immersing one's self in any fantasy world carries the possibility of the lines between reality and fantasy blurring, be it with RPGs, MMOs, pen and paper RPGs, or reading habits.
We all have things in our lives that others don't agree with, as evidenced in several spots in this thread. Just keep such things in mind.

try front missiohn 3 or 4 there sort of strategic rpg's and they are all about mecha so no magic at all.