Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

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Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Never thirsty! » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:03 am

For example debt God doesn't condone it but it's not a sin if it was everyone would be sinning 25/8/366(367 on leap year yes I know that's impossible) because of the debt we owe to Jesus because He loaned us His life which is why we must take up our cross daily.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby K. Ayato » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:05 am

The Bible also states that every debt must be paid and if you vow, you should keep it. God doesn't condone anything. Nice try. Don't make the foolish assumption that because God hasn't done anything and since society allows it that it's okay in His eyes.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby goldenspines » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:24 am

......
So, there are so many things wrong with what you just posted, but I'll take the obvious one and give you something to think about. And please do make an effort to think about it before posting again.

Where are earth does it say that Jesus "loaned" us His life to anyone? Find a verse in the Bible that says that. Find it and PM it to me.
It says He gave His life. And and better than that, He gave it with no strings attached. Just because He loves us.

If you're somehow thinking you have to "pay back" your free gift of salvation that God offers, you need to recheck what the Bible says, unless you're just pulling this from nowhere and that would make it non-scriptural. Or better yet, just talk to God about this and not like, us strangers on the internet.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Never thirsty! » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:49 pm

maybe loan wasn't the right word He gave something we couldn't ever fully give back is what I was trying to say. hmm alright K. Ayato let me revise my question are there things God doesn't like that aren't necessarily sins? example God doesn't like sadness but being sad isn't a sin. Btw I hadn't made that assumption
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby goldenspines » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:52 pm

^^^^
Again, go back to your Bible because I'm not sure where you're getting all this. Where does it say that God even cares about fleeting emotions like sadness and happiness? Even Jesus was sad at times as well. He is more concerned with your faith, trust, and love towards Him. Try to focus less on "this or that is a sin" or "God doesn't like this or that" and more on trusting in God, talking to Him, and reading your Bible to get to know God better.
Basically, stop being so nit-picky. God didn't make things that complex. XP
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Xeno » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:26 am

Out of curiosity NT, what kind of church do you attend?
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby anlptgtsg » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:07 am

Hmmmm... I'm not sure what your getting at. But I kind of remember when Joseph was sold as a slave or the story the disciples asking Jesus why is this man blind or Esau's offering. To answer your question, no there is none.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Never thirsty! » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:22 am

Goldenspines if God doesn't care about happiness or sadness what was the point of Lamentations or Psalms that expressed joy to Him? Xeno I attend Heritage Christian. To that most recent post whose username my nearsightedness can't make out I don't quite understand how those stories back up the answer to my question.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Mr. Rogers » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:14 am

There are some things in the Bible that are pretty cut and dry when it comes to commandments, and then there are other things that are either not mentioned or hard to figure out. Obviously something like murder is no good. But then there are other issues that are harder to sort through. One relatively recent issue in that category might be the role of women in positions of leadership.

I think the best way to solve these questions is to make it a point to read through the Bible at least once a year. If you do that, then you can be familiar with all the revelation we have from God in the Bible and you can use your knowledge of those general principles to sort through the tough questions that aren't always clear.

It's also important to have a group of mature Christian friends or a mentor who you can talk through these kinds of questions with. I've learned that having more than one pair of eyes on an issue and on your life is a great way to make sure that you don't miss anything or to make sure that your personal bias (and we all have them) doesn't get in the way of truth.

I don't think you have to "pay back" God for what he did; that's pretty clear from scripture; however, I'm glad that you're trying to figure out how to please God with your life. Keeping God's commandments in mind will help you throughout your day as you live for Him.

If you'd like a good resource on how to love reading the Bible, I'd recommend a book called Ten Steps to Loving the Bible [https://keithferrin.com/store/]. You can also listen through the podcasts and get the basic idea of the book.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Never thirsty! » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:33 am

I was not trying to say we have to pay Him back He knows we can't because not one has lived a blameless life but Christ which is why He could take our sin He didn't have His own stuff to work out.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Mr. Rogers » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:51 am

Yeah, I don't get any indication that you were trying to figure out a way to pay God back. Anyone who has tried that would get burned out pretty quickly. I know I have. I think you were just asking a question out of curiosity. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby K. Ayato » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:04 pm

In answer to your question about Lamentations, you probably never read how God through the prophets said Jerusalem would be destroyed and the people carried off to captivity as a result of their sin and refusal to repent. Lamentations is Jeremiah's reaction to the severity of God's judgment upon Jerusalem.

As far as the Psalms go, you probably fail to see that David was human and that it's perfectly okay to vent and cry out in anguish to God. Take a good look at Psalm 13. The first half, he's upset and feels abandoned. Then as the psalm continues, he remembers Who God is and praises him.

In short, you're not reading your Bible properly and are trying to justify your own negative thoughts by pulling passages out of context.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Mr. Rogers » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Let's be careful not to turn this thread into a series of accusations.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby anlptgtsg » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:36 am

I just thought of those stories because I think you are asking something parallel to the question why God allows us to suffer. I say no because for me there is only right or wrong. There is no in between. And God accept righteousness. Just pm me if you want to know why I think of it that way. I just leave this part out because I don't really understand what you meant. And probably still don't.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby drill » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:12 am

I would like to jump in the conversation here...
Never thirsty! wrote:Goldenspines if God doesn't care about happiness or sadness what was the point of Lamentations or Psalms that expressed joy to Him? Xeno I attend Heritage Christian. To that most recent post whose username my nearsightedness can't make out I don't quite understand how those stories back up the answer to my question.

I do have to say, considering so many posts have been made so far that there have been 0 quotes from the Bible so far, what is up with that?

1 Peter 5:7 - Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.

Ecclesiastes 3:22 - So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?

Even though I differ with goldenspines on the first part, the second part is really good advice:
goldenspines wrote:Try to focus less on "this or that is a sin" or "God doesn't like this or that" and more on trusting in God, talking to Him, and reading your Bible to get to know God better.


Lastly, to answer your first question (which differs from every post ive read so far):

Never thirsty! wrote:For example debt God doesn't condone it but it's not a sin if it was everyone would be sinning 25/8/366(367 on leap year yes I know that's impossible) because of the debt we owe to Jesus because He loaned us His life which is why we must take up our cross daily.


First, lets define what sin is:

Romans 14:23 - But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.

According to this definition of sin, then no, God does not condone things that aren't sins.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Nate » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:47 pm

drill wrote:Romans 14:23 - But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.

According to this definition of sin, then no, God does not condone things that aren't sins.

I don't think this is a very useful response given the topic. Let's take an example we had a thread about a while back that got a lot of different responses: smoking.

Is smoking a sin? Well, the bible certainly does not say smoking is a sin anywhere in it. Some people try to use the "your body is a temple" verse to say it's a sin, but that verse is talking about sexual sin, not anything else. Now, the verse you've posted would say that if you think smoking is sinful and you do it, then it's a sin. Okay, that's fair enough.

But the OP's question is: let's say you don't think smoking is a sin. Now, the bible doesn't say smoking is a sin, and you don't think it's a sin. But, would God necessarily approve of smoking, even if it's not a sin? The question is, is smoking a thing that God would say "Yeah I wish you wouldn't do that, but it's not a sin so go ahead and do it if you want I guess." Same thing goes for really fatty/unhealthy foods.

Anyway since the bible doesn't say and God isn't really in the habit of appearing to people and saying "My son do not eat that triple bacon cheeseburger" I'd say it isn't worth worrying about. It's an interesting question I think but as it's basically unanswerable I think it's best to not think about it too much and dwell instead on the things that actually matter.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby rocklobster » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:44 am

Actually, Nate, we could stretch things a bit. Cigarettes are drugs, and they do slowly kill you. In a way, smokers are violating the 5th commandment.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:53 am

Living also slowly kills you. Living violates the 5th commandment.

As well as McDonalds, GMO foods, and carcinogenic deodorants.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Otaku Jordan » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:24 pm

Never thirsty! wrote:For example debt God doesn't condone it but it's not a sin if it was everyone would be sinning 25/8/366(367 on leap year yes I know that's impossible) because of the debt we owe to Jesus because He loaned us His life which is why we must take up our cross daily.


There are 365 days in a year, 366 in a leap year...

There are two main ways of viewing salvation in Christianity that I am aware of. One view is that it is a gift, the other view (and the one that I personally hold to) is that it is a covenant or a contract. That's a bit of an oversimplification (actually, it's a huge oversimplification) but my point is that viewing Jesus' death as a debt is not orthodox.

Also, what the Bible warns against is monetary debt.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby K. Ayato » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:28 pm

And failing to keep your vows.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby AndrewinIce » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:13 pm

Neverthirsty, Read the below verses. They may help you with your question.


Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Living also slowly kills you. Living violates the 5th commandment.

As well as McDonalds, GMO foods, and carcinogenic deodorants.


Question: "What is the Christian view of smoking? Is smoking a sin?"

Answer: The Bible never directly mentions smoking. There are principles, however, that definitely apply to smoking. First, the Bible commands us not to allow our bodies to become "mastered" by anything. "Everything is permissible for me—but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible for me—but I will not be mastered by anything" (1 Corinthians 6:12). Smoking is undeniably strongly addictive. Later in the same passage we are told, "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). Smoking is undoubtedly very bad for your health. Smoking has been proven to damage the lungs and the heart.

Can smoking be considered "beneficial" (1 Corinthians 6:12)? Can it be said that smoking is truly honoring God with your body (1 Corinthians 6:20)? Can a person honestly smoke "for the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31)? We believe that the answer to these three questions is a resounding "no." As a result, we believe that smoking is a sin and therefore should not be practiced by followers of Jesus Christ.

Some argue against this view by pointing to the fact that many people eat unhealthy foods, which can be just as addicting and just as bad for the body. As an example, many people are so helplessly addicted to caffeine that they cannot function without their first cup of coffee in the morning. While this is true, how does that make smoking right? It is our contention that Christians should avoid gluttony and excessively unhealthy eating. Yes, Christians are often hypocritical by condemning one sin and condoning another, but, again, this does not make smoking honoring to God.

Another argument against this view of smoking is that many godly men have been smokers, such as the famous British preacher C.H. Spurgeon, who was known to smoke cigars. Again, we do not believe this argument holds any weight. We believe Spurgeon was wrong for smoking. Was he otherwise a godly man and fantastic teacher of God's Word? Absolutely! Does that make all of his actions and habits honoring to God? No.

In stating that smoking is a sin, we are not stating that all smokers are unsaved. There are many true believers in Jesus Christ who smoke. Smoking does not prevent a person from being saved. Nor does it cause a person to lose salvation. Smoking is no less forgivable than any other sin, whether for a person becoming a Christian or a Christian confessing his/her sin to God (1 John 1:9). At the same time, we firmly believe that smoking is a sin that should be forsaken and, with God’s help, overcome."
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Xeno » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:57 pm

I find it hard to believe that something the patriarchs of Judaism and Christianity did, smoking, was sinful. Either they were all wrong, or there had beena theological change in response to how we view smoking. It's more than likely the latter considering how social views of subjects tend to change (the views of alcohol before, during, and after prohibition come to mind).

You're also not using those verses in their exact proper contexts.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Mr. SmartyPants » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:22 pm

Oh hermeneutics and language mixed with the Bible! All this "saved" and "unsaved" business is ridiculous. Ridiculous binaries.

Honestly I don't think God literally, concretely, and cognitively *cares* if I drink coffee or smoke a cigarette. I don't think God is a sentient being.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby AndrewinIce » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:45 am

Xeno wrote:I find it hard to believe that something the patriarchs of Judaism and Christianity did, smoking, was sinful. Either they were all wrong, or there had beena theological change in response to how we view smoking. It's more than likely the latter considering how social views of subjects tend to change (the views of alcohol before, during, and after prohibition come to mind).

You're also not using those verses in their exact proper contexts.


The ‘patriarchs’ of Christianity were human. Humans sin. Ergo, they sinned, quiet a lot. Also, no one knew that smoking was bad, so it was an unknowing sin (rather sinning accidently is still sinning is another thread).

The context of some of the verses is referring to sexual sins, true. But if you are not supposed to have sex out of wed-lock, then I doubt we should inhaling deadly smoke.
But lets look at the verses.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.”

So, to me, this says that smoking, or anything that damages your body, is sin. These verses may be addressing sexual sin, but it seems like guidelines to follow on multiple issues. These verses mean more on a spiritual sense, true, but it seems to me to apply to the physical as well.


Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Oh hermeneutics and language mixed with the Bible! All this "saved" and "unsaved" business is ridiculous. Ridiculous binaries.

Honestly I don't think God literally, concretely, and cognitively *cares* if I drink coffee or smoke a cigarette. I don't think God is a sentient being.


Why are you reading or posting on a thread like this then? I’m genuinely curious how you think you can help somebody with a question like this if you believe what you just typed. If you just here to defend a slow form of suicide, then fine. But it seems to me that your just wasting your time.


Also, in case anyone is going to use the old ‘what if by smoking I get to know somebody and can lead them to Christ’ bit, that’s another matter entirely. It’s like asking, ‘why not join a gang of people who take turns bashing there heads into a wall and try to lead them to Christ. I’ll do permanent injury to my brain, but at least I won’t give up this habit.’
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Nate » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:36 am

rocklobster wrote:Actually, Nate, we could stretch things a bit. Cigarettes are drugs, and they do slowly kill you. In a way, smokers are violating the 5th commandment.


AndrewinIce wrote:Smoking is undeniably strongly addictive.


The problem you two are making is that smoking is not in and of itself addictive or drugs. Yes, the cigarettes you can buy at the corner store contain nicotine, which is an addictive substance and is certainly a drug. However, what about smoking tobacco without nicotine in it? It is not a drug, and it wouldn't be addictive.

In addition, caffeine is a drug too and also highly addictive. So is drinking soda/coffee/tea a sin?

Later in the same passage we are told, "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).


NO. No no no no no no no no no no no. YOU ARE TAKING THAT VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT.

The context of that verse is EXTREMELY clear. You cannot, CANNOT remove the verses before it that state in crystal clear detail what that verse is referring to.

Shun fornication! Every sin that a person commits is outside the body; but the fornicator sins against the body itself. - 1 Corinthians 6:18

And why is Paul talking about this? Because as he says even earlier,

Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Should I therefore take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For it is said, “The two shall be one flesh.” - 1 Corinthians 6:15-16

You do not get to take 19 and 20 out of the context that Paul is clearly and undeniably talking about sex, not eating fatty foods, not smoking, not getting tattoos, not anything except sex.

Some argue against this view by pointing to the fact that many people eat unhealthy foods, which can be just as addicting and just as bad for the body. As an example, many people are so helplessly addicted to caffeine that they cannot function without their first cup of coffee in the morning. While this is true, how does that make smoking right? It is our contention that Christians should avoid gluttony and excessively unhealthy eating. Yes, Christians are often hypocritical by condemning one sin and condoning another, but, again, this does not make smoking honoring to God.


You know what I like? I like it when someone brings up a point, and their point is completely ignored. This paragraph says that unhealthy foods are bad, but does not say that people who eat unhealthy food or drink coffee are sins. It just says "Christians sure do these things, but anyway smoking is bad!" I wonder why the author of this piece doesn't say drinking coffee is a sin? It's a logical necessity from the points he's making, but he sidesteps it and does not directly address it, instead just reiterating "smoking is bad" without condemning what he needs to condemn as a sin. The Bible makes pretty clear statements about those who are lukewarm about such things, and they're not pretty. If coffee and bacon cheeseburgers are sinful, this guy needs to say "These are bad and do not honor God and are sins." But he doesn't, probably because people would get upset if he did. Well, he either needs to stand behind the truth or shut up about smoking.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Davidizer13 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:17 pm

Let's say someone works at a coal mine. For twenty years he works at the coal face, breathing in coal dust and diesel exhaust for 40+ hours a week the whole time. There's a good chance he's going to get black lung disease or cancer from that. What's more, burning the coal he's mining releases carbon dioxide, sulfur compounds and heavy metals into the atmosphere, contributing to climate change, smog, acid rain and more. The risks and consequences of all these are well-known and publicized throughout the time he works there.

If he stays in this job and continues to mine coal, despite the risks it poses to himself and others, is it a sin? Why or why not?
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby Xeno » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:24 pm

There is nothing more christian than backbreaking labor. Coal miners also help defeat the global climate change myth. This is a noble profession, and they aren't sinning because they are addicted only to the good fruits of their labor.

Alternatively, this argument shows just how rridiculous this can get. I think that Jesus guy said some stuff about people who care too much about the rules.
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Re: Are there things God doesn't condone that aren't necessarily sins

Postby shooraijin » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:28 pm

I think he did too. Neverthirsty, you have a lot to think about. Good luck.
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