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When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he meant?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:51 pm
by Never thirsty!
My youth pastor says tatoos, excessive piercings, and self-injury are also things you shouldn't subject your body to because it is the Spirit's dwelling place I understand self-injury but what amount of piercings is too much and what if the tatoo is a statement of faith?

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:59 pm
by Okami
It's all about context. That verse, in context, is talking about the church as a whole (not individual body) and is in reference to sexuality.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:13 pm
by K. Ayato
Especially in light of the issue Paul had to address in chapter 5.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:17 pm
by Okami
For reference, this is discussing 1 Corinthians 6:19.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:21 pm
by Vilo159
I would agree with your pastor on this, but as Okami said, that verse doesn't apply to those things. For guys, I'd say any piercings would be to many, and the same with tattoos. You can proclaim your faith without inking it on your arm or whatever. That's just my opinion, though.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:00 pm
by Mr. SmartyPants
Your pastor is brainwashing you and probably does not understand Christian theology.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 am
by Azier the Swordsman
I fail to understand why God would have any issue with however one chose to decorate their body to express themselves. It makes no sense. It's all about your heart and your relationship with God and the way that manifests in your life; trivial things like how you choose to decorate yourself don't matter. Why would they? If the "spirit" is going to be "offended" to dwell in a body that is pierced or marked up, then by that logic, it's a "sin" to be missing an arm or to be scarred, ect. and the "spirit" can't dwell in such a body. See the absurdity of that? The spirit dwells in whatever body whose heart is receptive to God and God's love. It doesn't matter what that body is like. Getting caught up on petty stuff like "tattoos and piercings are teh evil!!!" is legalism, which Paul and Jesus both talked heavily against. We walk in grace, not subjugated to law.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:07 pm
by Nate
Azier the Swordsman wrote:I fail to understand why God would have any issue with however one chose to decorate their body to express themselves. It makes no sense.

God created man in his own image. And man, being a gentleman, returned the favor.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:51 pm
by Azier the Swordsman
Nate wrote:
Azier the Swordsman wrote:I fail to understand why God would have any issue with however one chose to decorate their body to express themselves. It makes no sense.

God created man in his own image. And man, being a gentleman, returned the favor.


This.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:05 pm
by Yuki-Anne
Basically this is a cultural issue. Among the older generation in most of the United States tattoos and piercings are still taboo and distasteful. But there are other cultures where these things are normal and celebrated, and there's nothing wrong with that. When I was going to a Christian college in Missouri, I had a friend who was an international student from Kenya. It was part of her culture that when a woman came of age she would get a nose piercing. That's a normal, acceptable practice in Kenya. And yet the powers that be wouldn't let her have her nose-ring in. She had her nose pierced and had to put a black spacer in there to keep the hole from sealing up, but couldn't wear her nose-ring, because it's the Midwest and God forbid that we accept cultural differences or something?

And the Bible doesn't actually say anything at all about tattoos or piercings, at least not in the sense that we have them in America today. In fact, what little it does say about piercings doesn't go so far as to condemn them. In Genesis 24, Abraham's servant gives Rebekah, Isaac's future wife, a gold nose ring. In Leviticus 19:28, it says, "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord." Okay, that seems clear-cut, but if you look in context, this is about pagan worship traditions. For example, this study from the Smithsonian (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-a ... c=y&page=2) indicates that in Ancient Egypt, tattoos were meant to be a sort of permanent amulet. Not every culture did tattooing as a religious thing but to the Israelites, tattoos were a sign of the worship of foreign Gods.

Speaking of which, let's remember that this passage (the only passage in the entire Bible that mentions tattoos, by the way) is addressed to the Israelites. The verse before says, "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." In the same chapter it says, "You shall not mix two types of cloth." I'm pretty sure that unless the people who use this verse to condemn tattoos are dressing in only 100% cotton and wearing their facial hair like an orthodox Jew, they're being pretty hypocritical. The rest of the Bible says nothing, absolutely nothing about tattoos.

As for ear piercing, Exodus 21 actually commands it for when a servant, when offered freedom, decides he wants to stay with his master for life. The master is to pierce his servant's ear, and it will be a sign that he is a servant for life. As for other mentions of earrings (and nose rings), most of them are just in terms of them being a cultural custom or a simple piece of jewelry in the same class as bracelets or necklaces. In Ezekiel 16, an allegorical passage about the relationship between God and Israel, God describes rescuing Israel from Egypt as taking an abandoned woman under his protection and giving her all the fine things of life, including giving her a nose ring and earrings. I'm pretty sure if God hated piercings and did not want us, under any circumstances, to have them, then he wouldn't portray them as this good thing that he gave to Israel, which she then proceeded to throw away.

Bottom line: tattoos and piercings are cultural things that in our current culture have no connection to idol worship or anything of the kind, and that seemed to be the main objection to them. Every argument I've seen saying that they're sinful has ripped passages out of context and in general twisted scripture to fit someone's predetermined cultural ideas of acceptability. If you're still not comfortable with tattoos, I understand, but there is absolutely no real argument against piercings, except that ear spacers are freaking gross. I hate it when it seems like I could poke my finger through somebody's piercing. Nasty.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:07 pm
by Nate
I want a tattoo of Leviticus 19:28 just to throw people off.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:15 pm
by Yuki-Anne
Nate wrote:I want a tattoo of Leviticus 19:28 just to throw people off.


You should just use the last four words. Then people will REALLY get mad.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:16 pm
by Xeno
I want a tattoo of Song of Songs 7:4 just to confuse people.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:20 pm
by Nate
Xeno wrote:I want a tattoo of Song of Songs 7:4 just to confuse people.

Ah c'mon man you've gotta get 7:3.

Or Proverbs 5:19.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:22 pm
by Yuki-Anne
I think what you really want is Ezekiel 23:20.

Re: When paul refers to the body as being the Spirit's dwelling place in terms of sexual immortality was that all he mea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:23 pm
by Xeno
I thought about that, but i'm really not into horses or donkeys.